Gwen Wolfrose

As heard in the Gweniverse:

P.o.e.t.r.y :: Filking Fun :: Coven or Solitaire? :: Dark is not Evil
Never Again! Uh huh, sure... :: WTF does 'Pay the Coin' Mean?
The Charge of the Fluffy Bunny :: The Charge of the Beeotch

"Never again!"

Uh huh, sure... what about the Satanists?

by: Gwen Wolfrose

"Never Again" you say? Well first, there is no tangible proof that any witches were actually burned. However, what does it matter if their were witches burned or not? PEOPLE were killed.

They were accused of consorting with the devil so even if they had been real witches they must have been satanic witches, and satanic witches are still getting burned today. Maybe not with fire, but burned all the same by people screaming for religious tolerance holding up the "burning times" and saying "never again". Come on, you know it to be true. You're sitting there right now reading this and saying to yourself that witchcraft doesn't have anything to do with satanism. You're thinking that paganism is all about white light and you're shortening the rede down to two words "Harm none" instead of "an it harm none, do as thou will." Which really just means to take responsibility for your own actions, follow your own will, and don't try to force your will upon others.

Now, tell me this... If it is all about "white light" why then do we even acknowledge Lilith, Hecate, Morigan, Kali, etc. Evil is in the eye of the beholder. After all, to most Christians _all_ Pagans are evil.

I believe that it was the early Christians who started calling everything that wasn't of the Christian belief system Pagan. Meaning if it wasn't the one true faith it was evil. Now did that happen or not? If not then why do so many scream "Never Again"?

Most _true_ Satanists (not the kiddies out to piss off their parents) don't really worship the Christian version of Satan, they worship themselves. You know, like Ceremonial Magicians do.

"Then why call it Satanism?"

As I understand it, Satan, Lucifer and the devil are three different beings. I believe Lucifer fell from grace. Satan is actually a trickster type deity who's job was/is to put one on trial to see their true nature. His intent was/is not evil, he could/can not make one do anything only point out the options. One had to not let him trick them into following a less righteous path than the laws of Moses. The point being to make sure the people of Israel would follow the book of Leviticus under any circumstances and not question it. Therefore, Satan in the bible is a trickster type who accuses people and puts them on trial to test their faith by tempting them to think for themselves and do their own will rather than the will of God.

The Devil is a Christian invention combining Lucifer and Satan. That all consuming evil fire and brimstone character we all call Satan isn't mentioned until Revelations, and he is referred to as The Beast not Satan. Hundreds of years ago the Christian church was viewed by some as tyrannical, and therefore evil, and if they and what they stood for was evil then what they were against must be good. Hence was born the Satanist.

So what would you consider to be an aspect of paganism?

"Promoting understanding would be something I would consider pagan... as would be seeking knowledge."

Well that is interesting lets take a look at one of the Nine Satanic Sins.

Stupidity -- The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.

"You took what I said out of context."

You defined an aspect of paganism in your own words. If these words are not true overall then they should have never been spoken. One should never make a statement if that is not their firm belief no matter what the subject of the thread is.

"Truth is relative."

Excuse me, truth is constant because either something is true or it is not. Either pagans embrace the promotion of understanding and seek knowledge or they do not... no matter the context.

I was not saying that you endorsed Satanism but merely pointing out that true Satanists embrace some of the very same things you said pagans do. It is the label of their path (what people have stereotyped them as) for which most people object, seeing the label they never seek to understand what knowledge they posses.

So, understanding and knowledge are Pagan aspects or are they not... there is no only if's when it comes to truth. The subject I took your comment from was along the lines of define pagan, how then can it be out of context when the new question was are Satanists Pagan? The most ill used argument is that Satanists are not pagan because they worship the Christian devil which just goes to prove that knowledge and understanding has never truly been sought in this matter by those making the argument.

"Well, you know some Satanists slaughter goats."

You know, many claim pagans are following the ways of the "old traditions". Well, the old pagan religions sacrificed animals and sometimes people but we're embracing the old druids and such, not condemning them for their religious practices.

I do not pretend to like their ways, who ever the goat slaughterers think they are. However, they have a right to be themselves just as much as the rest of us, and just because we don't approve does not mean we have any right what so ever to kick them to the curb. Because if we have that right then the Christians have the right to kick us to the curb and we've no right to argue with them about religious rights.

"I believe that Satanism is a Christian heresy, not a pagan religion... ...Any one who claims to be a Satanist is not Pagan nor will they ever be. You first have to be a Christian before you can be a Satanist."

Give me a break! Why don't we just let the Satanists have a word or two about whose religion got a hand up from who. The Satanic Origins of Wicca. Plus, anyone who doesn't acknowlege by now that Gerald Gardner borowed heavily from Aleister Crowley really needs a better education.

Until you let go of the teachings of the Christian Church then you shall never be free to find your own faith.

The Statement of Principles from theFirst Church of Satan: "We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose."

Can you sum this up in eight words?

"An it harm none, do as thou will"

If we could get past the myths and propaganda of what we have "always been taught" about satanism we actually find out that their beliefs, while not being totally just like our own, are somewhat similar. How can we then deny that they too can call themselves Pagan?

"Never again" my ass, we are holding the torches ourselves now, only it's the Satanists on the pyre... we sacrifice the occult to become more acceptable to the mainstream.

"I don't care if you worship the Goddess, the Devil, or Binkie the Clown. Where it becomes my business is where it crosses the line to interfering with my own path. The symbols of Satanism are twisted versions of peaceful religions. They use the pentacle as Hitler used the swastika, and "dirty" it's meaning beyond use. How many times have we defended our sacred symbol? What saddens me is that it's necessary. If Satanists did not mooch our symbols and terminology we would not be faced with the persecution we are. Satanic witches indeed! Ha."

Excuse me but when did you gain ownership of a symbol? The upside down pentacle represents material over spirit i.e. the elemental aspects of the pentacle above the spirit aspect. In the right side up position spirit is above the elements meaning spirit is revered above all.

Satanism is kinda the "me" religion. Meaning they put themselves before anyone else. They have every right to use the pentacle the way they do for it is a correct representation.

If this is interfering with your own path it is because you allow it to do so. Stand firm for what you believe but do not do so by bashing anothers faith. It can only affect you as much as you allow it.

Educate those who are ignorant of what the symbolism means, it is not the fault of those who are properly using the symbol. Make ascertains of what you believe rather than putting anothers faith on the pyre.

We only have the right to discuss the validity of our own faith and practices. If it's not your cup-o-tea you've no right to spit in it.

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all rights reserved, all wrongs returned accordingly...